Hi there!
I'm a French native and was watching the French news when I heard about this story.
Sorry there is no translation at this time but I will try to provide one:
video.aol.com/video-detai...n/4085559841
There is also another video from another tv channel:
jt.france2.fr/13h/
the story starts at 11mns, and even if you're not a French speaker you might get parts of it reading the transcript located on the right of you screen under the headline: La fille de 11 mois d'un couple de végétaliens meurt de malnutrition (daughter of vegan couple dies of malnourishment).
This is horrible because of course it is so sad but this puts vegan and naturopaths (the parents are naturopaths and they run a little health food store in a tiny town in France) in a bad posture and I'm going to need some good arguments for my French folks who've heard this story and will be scared for me and my 5 yr. old, only we're not 100% vegan, more like 60% perhaps.
I was so bumped when I heard about his because if I was a typical mom or person and would hear this news I would surely think this is not a safe diet, only it seems that baby girl had a pneumonia (and a history of bronchitis and diarrhea...) and the reporter is saying she was not treated conventionally because the parents are naturopaths, so this story not only depicts the vegan diet as being poor and so on (they actually state in that video that baby girl was malnourished saying she was "only" breastfed and of a vegan mom etc etc, they then interview some Dr. or Pediatrics and nurses who say you can't have vitamin b12 and so on when not consuming animal products, the whole blahblah), but it gives an image of naturopathy as being unhealthy etc...
They are basically stating this baby girl died because of poor diet and poor medical or non medical treatment.
The couple have a 9 yr old, it's not stated if this 9 year old grew up with a vegan diet as well, I'd love to find out.
My friends and people who know me in France are going to freak out and be scared for me cause I'm always happy to tell them how good a vegan diet feels but I need some "backup", good information so I can let them know I'm okay (of course, again I'm not 100% vegan but still).
This news is not good for the vegan community in France, I wonder why they can do about it, I will be looking for more insight about the death of this little girl because we just do not have enough information, maybe she had a pre existing disposition or something.
This is not a post to bring controversy, I'm the first one to rave about going to our vegan Saturn cafe here is Santa Cruz and so on, and if you guys feel this should not be on this tribe let me know cause I know there has been some hot topics and posts in the past...
I just hope to find answers and insight, although we have little information here...
Thank you/merci.
S.
I'm a French native and was watching the French news when I heard about this story.
Sorry there is no translation at this time but I will try to provide one:
video.aol.com/video-detai...n/4085559841
There is also another video from another tv channel:
jt.france2.fr/13h/
the story starts at 11mns, and even if you're not a French speaker you might get parts of it reading the transcript located on the right of you screen under the headline: La fille de 11 mois d'un couple de végétaliens meurt de malnutrition (daughter of vegan couple dies of malnourishment).
This is horrible because of course it is so sad but this puts vegan and naturopaths (the parents are naturopaths and they run a little health food store in a tiny town in France) in a bad posture and I'm going to need some good arguments for my French folks who've heard this story and will be scared for me and my 5 yr. old, only we're not 100% vegan, more like 60% perhaps.
I was so bumped when I heard about his because if I was a typical mom or person and would hear this news I would surely think this is not a safe diet, only it seems that baby girl had a pneumonia (and a history of bronchitis and diarrhea...) and the reporter is saying she was not treated conventionally because the parents are naturopaths, so this story not only depicts the vegan diet as being poor and so on (they actually state in that video that baby girl was malnourished saying she was "only" breastfed and of a vegan mom etc etc, they then interview some Dr. or Pediatrics and nurses who say you can't have vitamin b12 and so on when not consuming animal products, the whole blahblah), but it gives an image of naturopathy as being unhealthy etc...
They are basically stating this baby girl died because of poor diet and poor medical or non medical treatment.
The couple have a 9 yr old, it's not stated if this 9 year old grew up with a vegan diet as well, I'd love to find out.
My friends and people who know me in France are going to freak out and be scared for me cause I'm always happy to tell them how good a vegan diet feels but I need some "backup", good information so I can let them know I'm okay (of course, again I'm not 100% vegan but still).
This news is not good for the vegan community in France, I wonder why they can do about it, I will be looking for more insight about the death of this little girl because we just do not have enough information, maybe she had a pre existing disposition or something.
This is not a post to bring controversy, I'm the first one to rave about going to our vegan Saturn cafe here is Santa Cruz and so on, and if you guys feel this should not be on this tribe let me know cause I know there has been some hot topics and posts in the past...
I just hope to find answers and insight, although we have little information here...
Thank you/merci.
S.
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 1:33 PMThousands of vegan kids are born, grow up, and live perfectly healthy lives. Thousands of non-vegans kids die of malnourishment every year. People love to pounce all over stories like this to point out how "different" equals "bad", when really it's just one measly data point out of millions. -
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 8:34 PMsome stupid people are vegan. what can the rest of us do about it? -
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 10:20 PMONLY BREASTFED? at 11 months a baby should drink only mother's milk, no?
anyway...I agree with what Matt said, and I would also addthat the media likes a good tagline , so all the facst may not have been considered and even mentionned.
I have not watched the video yet though as I have to get to bed.
I will watch it tomorrow and then post again. -
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Sun, April 6, 2008 - 12:11 AMI'm not going to read it because it's probably just another case of uneducated or simply stupid people who didn't take care of their baby and the problem is not the vegan diet. I don't need any more negative crap in my life at the moment.
Two very dear friends of mine have been vegan longer than 12 years and their son (vegan from conception to now) is 3 now and is an awesome well adjusted NORMAL size and shape kid with above average brain function in my opinion.
I will say though, he didn't look bloated as an infant from all the cow's milk and formula.
If you google "vegan baby starvation" and other key words like that and read back on the other two major cases from the past 5 years, you can find a lot of blogs with a lot of comments from both uneducated omnivores and vegans who can put them in their place. It's nice to read posts from well spoken vegans across the country.
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Sun, April 6, 2008 - 12:47 AMWhat i love unicorns said (including the friends with a normal healthy vegan from birth child). -
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Sun, April 6, 2008 - 4:10 AMCheck this photo out. These are friends of mine, both Vegan, and their fully Vegan since birth baby boy. You want to talk about a healthy kid? Notice how nobody in this family looks sickly or underfed? I know I am preaching to the choir here, but I wanted to share a positive Vegan baby story with everyone.
images.tribe.net/tribe/upl...cb743cac49 -
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 8:38 PMLooks like a normal, healthy, vegan family to me. :)
BTW, I don't particularly like babies, but this one does have some cute little chubby cheeks. He's also got his dad's mischievous-looking eyebrows. ;) -
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Tue, April 8, 2008 - 6:36 PMOkay so here's my input:
(sorry I've been busy so I only had the chance to read it now)
first if you watch the report it says that the child had multiple infections because of poor hygiene conditions, it also says that the mother gave birth at home (and not by choice) and that social services had visited her...translation: she is incredibly poor.
also all the emphasis is put on the vegan diet, but the baby was 11 month old when she died, and any REAL pediatrist will tell you that mother's milk is normal for a baby that age. So the probable cause of the babies death is squalor.
The "pdiatrist" that they quote refers multiple times to protein deficiency, which is simply false, a protein deficiency is called kwaziorchor, and it involves a bloating of the abdomen and loss of almost all muscle mass and discoloration of the skin, hair and eyes.
this child did not have those symptoms.
and then he speaks of vitamin deficiency (but only mentions vitamin b-12)...and he repeats that over and over agian, but again this "doctor" has no credibility because if there was a b-12 deficiency it would take YEARS to manifest itslef... and definitely could not kill a child...in fact b-12 deficiencies rarely kill anyone, they can cause neurological problems, but that takes over 20 years... oh and human breast milk contains b-12 by the way. ;-)
and then all of a sudden eventhough he never mentioned iron deficiencies he then mentions how iron can be a problem at the end...which again is NEVER a problem for infants because breats milk contains easily absorbable iron.
Vitamin D is a problem for infants though...and how do we get vitamin D? from the sun! and I refer you back to the fact that the baby was found inside a dark room in filthy conditions...
this is just terrible reporting and demonstrates how the French are about ten years behind the English and Americans when it comes to nutrition.
but then again the French have a huge meat and dairy industry so...it makes sense that they would be so defensive. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Tue, April 8, 2008 - 6:40 PMClarification: at the 6-8 month range a mother should start incorporating a small amount of food, but VERY small amounts...so the fact that she fed only breast milk is not significant at all...plus it is further proof that the report is wrong when blaming the vegan diet, because breastmilk is breast milk it is not a vegan diet ;-) -
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:22 PMI knew a baby whose mother only fed him breastmilk until he was a year old (I'm not sure why his mother did this, as I was only 10-11 myself; but I remember my mother commenting on the "strangeness" of it). Anyway, the baby was healthy, active, and even big for his age.
I must agree with Antoine - this case sounds like death by filth/poverty. -
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:38 PMBTW, the second news link in the original post changes each day, so the story about the "vegan" baby isn't there anymore (but I've enjoyed watching the latest in-depth news from a French perspective). :) -
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Tue, April 8, 2008 - 9:04 PMIf the mother wasn't eating well herself then her breastmilk would not be as nutritious for the child. It takes a healthy vegan mom to produce good breastmilk. If she was extremely poor and didn't have good sources of protein and ate only bread and pasta and didn't get all of the vitamins she needed while she was pregnant and then continued with the poor diet after the baby was born, the kid would definitely suffer.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breastfeeding is an interesting page on it.
And I found this that might explain why some mothers are advised against solid food for the first year..allergies..
parenting.ivillage.com/baby/b...00.html
according to that article (and it's only one I know), it's not odd to have little or no solid food for the 6-12 months of breastfeeding.
Personally, I think our culture (American/Western) tends to cut breastfeeding short because some think it's inconvenient and some people are embarrassed about doing it. -
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Re: Would love some input on this story of a French 11 mo. old who just died, parents are vegan, horrible news and not clear at this time
Tue, April 8, 2008 - 9:21 PMSo true. Also, she might not have even been producing *enough* milk to sustain the baby (even if the quality was ok) - which she may not even have realized. This baby was already sick with diarrhea, etc. and probably losing weight from illness alone.
Something tells me that these parents aren't highly educated, which is probably a big part of the problem.
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