It's really funny, reading to your 3 year old story books and having to explain to him what an egg is. I don't know if he has seen one! I tried scrambling them once when we were vegenarian but he didn't eat it; now I am vegan partly because he never took to meat or eggs so it became logical for our kitchen to switch to vegan foods....my philosophic leap came shortly after.
But it's just funny to find how many stories in children's books and rhymes have to do with eating meat! There are alot of farm references too. I guess that has to do with educating a child about daily activities. Children farm stories are to introduce the animals, where milk and eggs come from, and what we do with milk and eggs...to give them insight into daily cycles. But of course they don't say we kill the pig or cow or that meat comes from them.
I just have to tell stories about eggs and that people eat eggs. Milk isn't that hard because he nursed and he drinks soy milk, so it's "milk". But I make the story up saying that we ask the animalif we can use some of their eggs and the animal agrees to it. It's sharing in our story.
I am at the point in life of teaching vegan principles. It's cool because my kid is cool but I hope I don't fuck up somehow. It seems really daunting because I feel like I am turning my son against 99% of humanity.........I feel like I am teetering between being comfortable with my belief and being uncomfortable with making my child behave a certain way. Not eating meat is my viewpoint, you know.
I guess I should read up on how other parents have done this. Anyone have any help with this?
But it's just funny to find how many stories in children's books and rhymes have to do with eating meat! There are alot of farm references too. I guess that has to do with educating a child about daily activities. Children farm stories are to introduce the animals, where milk and eggs come from, and what we do with milk and eggs...to give them insight into daily cycles. But of course they don't say we kill the pig or cow or that meat comes from them.
I just have to tell stories about eggs and that people eat eggs. Milk isn't that hard because he nursed and he drinks soy milk, so it's "milk". But I make the story up saying that we ask the animalif we can use some of their eggs and the animal agrees to it. It's sharing in our story.
I am at the point in life of teaching vegan principles. It's cool because my kid is cool but I hope I don't fuck up somehow. It seems really daunting because I feel like I am turning my son against 99% of humanity.........I feel like I am teetering between being comfortable with my belief and being uncomfortable with making my child behave a certain way. Not eating meat is my viewpoint, you know.
I guess I should read up on how other parents have done this. Anyone have any help with this?
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Chicago
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Mon, March 17, 2008 - 11:39 AMGreat topic!! I don't have any kids yet, but we are planning on taking the plunge in a year or two. And this is something I have been thinking a lot about. I'll be very interested to hear responses from parents on the tribe. Thanks for bringing this up! You said it perfectly, your fear of "turning your son against 99% of humanity", it's hard not to find some potential fault with that... but it seems like the ethical choice in my opinion. I've always said, we would raise our kids vegan, and if they decided to stray when they are older, that is their decision to make.
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Mon, March 17, 2008 - 12:08 PMI'm not surprised that you find it daunting. I think any good parent would find a large part of raising a child daunting. I have a friend with a 3 or 4 year old she's raising as a vegan. I'll shoot her an email. -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Mon, March 17, 2008 - 9:50 PMcheck out vegfamily...lots of cool ressources
www.vegfamily.com/ -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Tue, March 18, 2008 - 8:25 AMThanks for helping out everyone! Please let me know how others are teaching their kids. I happened to be living in a small town now and am not around other vegans.
It was easier when my son was younger and if they had meat at daycare, well, he could eat if he wanted. And we would eat our vegan food at home with no discussion.
The children's books are making me talk about "where does food come from." Or rather "what is a farm and what is bacon and why is she churning butter" I guess it's a no brainer to teach your child what you believe, and veganism is a cool belief. Like when he stamped on a lady bug, I told him that the lady bug had a right to live too and we need to be nice to others. Duh, and not that imaginative on my part, but I went there with my logic with him and I guess others don't bat an eye at that.
Soooo
I just don't like being the person who would come off as "other people do blaaadeee blah, but weee do thisssss." Thrying to find the comfortable way of teaching my choice that I would like to be his choice (huh? you know what I mean but it's hard!) -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Tue, March 18, 2008 - 11:21 AMthanks Antoine for that link, I went to that site long time ago, it's good to read! -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Thu, March 20, 2008 - 8:05 PMI've raised my daughter vegan since birth. I've told her straight up about the meat & dairy industry from the start. I've also talked about health & the environment.
When she was 3 she started daycare part time & still remained vegan. Then kindergarten came & she saw all the cookies & cupcakes. Whenever I knew her class was going to have treats I always tried to make the vegan equivalent & bring it to her school. She only tried the non vegan food a couple of times.
In first grade it was a whole different story, she had no problem saying yes to the non vegan treats. I told her it was her decision, as long as she knew what was in them (I told the teachers to let her know if there were eggs or dairy in the food) & she felt it was ok to eat . She is now 7 y.o. & in 2nd grade & still eats non vegan foods occasionally . I never buy them for her but @ school or a friend's house is usually where she gets it. I'm not really happy about it but I'm not going to force my being vegan on her.
She says she never wants to animals. Which I'm glad but, when remind her that marshmallows contain gelatin, and remind her what gelatin is made of she doesn't care. This makes me sad but I feel that I've given her the knowledge & the reasons its now her decision to make up her own mind. She is very aware & does read labels & ingredients. Sometimes she tells me something is bad b/c of how much sugar grams are in it. Hey, @ least I'm raising an aware kid that thinks for herself. Maybe when she gets older she will become vegan again. Who knows. -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 2:40 AMB-dub
Disclaimer: I am not a parent yet and this is by no means to tell you how to raise your child, plus if I were in your position I don't know how I would react.
While I agree with your reasoning about your personal choice and respecting others rights to choose for themselves if it were for a cousin, a friend or a spouse, I think that it is taken to far for a child.
Children are too young to make up their own minds, and when they are asked to make complex ethical decision on their own they get confused as to who is the parent.
I know that our society reinforces that being vegan is a bad thing and that it is a personal choice.
but it isn't.
no more than deciding to raise your child against racism (and correcting the child if she makes a racist remark) Likewise by "choosing" veganism you are raising your child against speciesm. And if the child consumes animal products the child needs to hear a clear judgement from you, not for it to be left up to her.
Also (and perhaps more importantly) non-vegan foods (especially dairy) is extremely dangerous to our health. Not only is there a huge body of evidence in research about the hazrads of dairy, but also anecodtely I can tell you that dairy almost killed me, and that if I could do one thing to influence how my parents raised me, I would go back in time and tell them to stop feeding me dairy.
Dairy is dangerous! It si not just nad like meat, it is an actual poison.
There is a lot of research proving the dangers of eggs and meat as well, but for dairy the evidence is just SOOO overwhelming.
so as a parent you have to make decision for your child, because she is 7. If she decided to drink whiskey at school or take heroin you would be considered justified in putting your foot down and no one would expect you to simply tell her the facts and let her decide for herself.
But our society convinces us so much that veganism is a (weird) "personal choice" that we MUST keep to ourselves that we tend to second guess oursleves in personal situations as well... she is YOUR child and the bulk of medical evidence is on your side, and even if it weren't as a parent it is your job to decide what she eats, wears, at what time she eats and goes to sleep and where she goes to school ... no one else's
and if a child is not given clear boundaries and rules to follow, they tend to get confused.
again this is just my two cents, hopefully to help and support you in raising ypur child vegan. -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 4:12 AMAntoine, I would be very interested to hear about your experience with dairy as a poison. It sounds pretty severe. -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 10:50 AMwell put antoine. i also don't want to tell anyone how to raise their children, but i think as a parent one has a responsibility to imbue a child with a moral structure. catholics raise their children catholic. it wouldn't be appropriate for their child to go on down to a grove of trees and pray to the moon god would it?
before anyone jumps down my throat, this is just my opinion.
on another note, i've recently discovered that i don't really like children. i used to, but now they just annoy me. does that make me a bad person? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Vegan Parenting
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 11:45 AMa great resource to read about the **evils* * and **poisons**of dairy and the industry..
"The China Study" --T Colin Campbell.
www.thechinastudy.com
chopper---i say *yay* for you, i like being childfree by choice -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 2:14 PMThanks for how you put things Antoine. I understand where you are coming from. Yet, I am coming from being a parent & having friends that are parents of younger & older children. I agree that @ 7 my daughter can not grasp my ideals or understand the harm that dairy could do to her. How could she when everyone around her eats dairy.Her relatives, her friends, her classmates, her teachers all eat dairy & they are all healthy. I'm sure most of us grew up eating dairy, & w/ the exception of some, we are still alive to tell the tale. Our genetic make up has a lot to do w/ this. Some people can smoke & drink & live till they are 90 while others will get cancer or cirrhosis by 40. There are also those that get lung cancer & never smoked in their lives. Its not only what we put into our bodies it is also our dna plus our lifestyles (exercise & sleep) & I believe our attitude in how we deal w/ life that can keep us healthy or make us ill.
I am choosing to pick my battles w/ my daughter. I feel like I am laying the ground work for the future. How many people were forced to go to church against there will & hated every minute of it and are now guilty messes when it comes to morals & religion. I know several (not me however), most have gone the opposite way & hate all religion & hate their parents for forcing it upon them. I do not want that to happen to me. I would never force my daughter not to eat the occasional cupcake once every 2 months just as I would never force my child to believe in religion. I present facts & opinions & I feel when she gets older this will help our relationship. She will know she can come & talk to me about anything. She will not see me as someone that doesn't understand. She will not see me as someone who thinks its my way or no way on everything. I've been told by several parents of older kids that if you don't force the issues all the time then your kids will come to you for advice & they will listen & take the advice more often than not.
There are some things that I am strict about, I don't need to go into them here that is not what this thread is about. I just don't want to come across as some wishy washy parent that has no rules. Just know that I am always thinking of the current & future relationship I have w/ my daughter, like I said, I choose my battles w /her. I have been vegan for 18 years & vegetarian for 4 years b4 that. I hope when it comes to being vegan she will follow my example.
Now, instead of hearing from people that don't have any children, can we hear from people that have children. ;-) -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Fri, March 21, 2008 - 7:53 PMvery well said B-dub, and from a health standpoint I tend to agree that occasional trace amounts of dairy and eggs once every few months wil probably not harm you child too gravely.
Anthonwy, kristen's suggestion is a good one: Colin T.Campbell explains scientifically in his book the China Study how milk is actually a poison (identified as an intruder by the body) becasue we are supposed tobe weaned off milk, and also should not naturally drink the milk of another species.
In my experience I got ulcerative colitis from milk and almost died. It was very very bad.
Likewise many people who are "okay" but get colds every year and the flu and the sniffles and asthma, and stuffed noses, are actually suffering from mild dairy poisoning.
more severe are people who get diarhea, IBS, diabetes, serious asthma, arthritis.
and even more severe, cancer, IBDs, Multiple Scelorosis, autism (linked to the consumption of dairy by the mother whcih affected fetal development), Osteoporosis, etc.
dairy IS in fact a poison and a very dangerous one.
but I don't want to shanghai this thread, maybe B-dub is right and some of the ACTUAL parents in this tribe should respond ;-) -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Mon, March 24, 2008 - 7:00 AMHI everyone, great discussion! I don't know if I have anything significatn to offer as I am at work and a bit distracted, but wanted to check in.
Anyway, to respond to Antoine and BDub. You are raising some good points---but Antoine with parenting, you reach a point---like when the child is 18 months or younger!!--when it becomes absolutely obvious that as a parent we cannot make all the choices for our child and that for their developing ego it is imperative that we "let go" and allow them to start making their own choices. IE: this starts with the tiny steps of letting them dress themselves (not having them choose their cretaker, that's ridiculous of course...) but my point is....figuring out that balance between choosing and directing your child's welfare AND. allowing them to become their own person---is the crux of parenting.
So having to make this choice of "how much to tell them" "how much freedom to let them to choose their foods" is part of the package of general parenting anxiety, if you will. ANd honestly--does anyone get it right---or is there ever one way? It's seems that parents are always experimenting from week to week. That's what I've seen at least.
But your correlation to "how to not raise a racist" is interesting because we are passing down beliefs. Racism is damaging and it kills. So does eating animal products. Yet, in my mind, it does seem harder to make animal welfare as vital to a child's mind
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 12:18 AMJust wanted to say hello, from a fellow veg*n raising a vegan baby. (I'm much stricter with her diet than with mine, I'm more of a freegan that eats vegan 95% of the time).
My child is only 16 months, so I still can mostly control what she eats - which is a challenge nonetheless, and pretty stressful in some situations (like being at home in Argentina, where all my dairy- and sugar-addicted family members live). She's had bites of things not intended for her here and there (e.g. a grilled cheese her little cousin was eating) and, although my first instinct was to freak out, I realized the moment passed and my freak out would do absolutely no good, other than create an Issue for my daughter out of food.
And this is very dangerous territory, to me, because I grew up with parents who were obsessed with what I did and didn't eat (within a whole culture obsessed with eating/body image) and it resulted in eating disorders and a complex relationship to food that I was only able to iron out in my mid-20s.
So, there are many intersections there. I personally have finally understood that it's impossible for me to control my daughter's diet for 18 years, and undesirable. I will strive to educate her daily on the values of my household (ie compassion and respect for all living beings, as well as eating for health), and will strive to be consistent with that rhetoric in all realms of my life. Aside from that, though, I won't be able to dictate her adherence to my value system. And freedom of choice is an element in that system... The complicated angles of parenthood, indeed.
sleepy now. bye! -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 10:19 AMHi Florencia, nice to meet you! Please PM me anytime as I am always interested in bonding with other vegan parents. I don't know any in my present home town, so I feel a bit isolated and welcome the bond.
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 6:05 PMI glad you brought up the topic. I am pregnant with my first child, and am due to give birth next month. One of the questions I receive from others is, "Is your child going to be vegan?" I always think the question is absurd, but I tell them that s/he will be vegan as long as I am feeding him/her, but it will be his/her decision whether or not to continue as an adult. I tend to think that if I tell my child the truth about what people are eating then the meat and animal products will not be appetizing. However, I don't want to turn my child against others because they eat animals. I have strong moral issues with eating animals, and I don't see them as food. I don't know if I would want my son or daughter to eat non-vegan foods away from home. It certainly would not be my preference. I hadn't really thought of doing such a thing until I read your post. I am fortunate to have a friend who is vegan and raising her daughter to be vegan. At least my child will have a friend who is living the same way and eating the same things. I hope to have my son/daughter around like-minded people.
I purchased a book on raising vegetarian children. I have not read it yet, but it may provide more insight on how to provide a balance between passing on your ethics and having compassion for others who live differently. -
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Re: Vegan Parenting
Mon, May 19, 2008 - 9:21 PMIt's truly a challenge keeping the kiddos away from non-vegan foods when they're away from you out of the home. IMHO it's ok to let my kids make their own decisions to try things that are non-vegan. My babies are fully aware of who each item is made from but if they want to try a food when at a party, school, etc. they can. We talk about it at home and discuss the morality and all-around sadness involved in eating animals. As in all child rearing you can only give kids the springboard to jump off of and they choose to fly from there. My kids are making great choices and I am proud of them for it -
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